Jobless Dinner Wakeup

Jody Brooks 0:00

One evening at a family dinner in Jakarta, my guest today, Karana Siddin, was told by her seven-year-old son, Mum, you're so jobless. Everyone laughed. Karana did not, because underneath the laughter was ten years of quietly drifting away from herself while she played the roles of mother and wife perfectly. In this episode, she tells us what happened next. How one hour of reading, one cup of coffee, and one very inconvenient comment from a small human turned into a blog, an Amazon best-selling book, and a coaching practice built on the idea that a good life isn't found, it's built one ordinary Tuesday at a time. If you're quietly waving at yourself from across the room right now, stay with me and Karana Siddin on this episode.

Kirana Sidin 0:51

Thank you, Jordy. It's been a pleasure to be here. Whoa, well, that's a great intro from you. I do not expect you to be some kind of wonderful intro, but I love it. And then I it's such an honor to be here, and I can't wait to have that this wonderful conversation with you, Jody. Thank you so much.

Jody Brooks 1:08

You're welcome. I'm thrilled to have you here. And that intro was really, I'm glad that you felt it was worthy of such a great story and such a great guest. And we had a great pre-interview, and we've just been chatting again now, started recording. So I know today's going to be a great episode, and I know that there's lots of people out there in midlife that are really going to connect with your story. So we gave a bit of it away in the intro. Corona, tell me about that messy midlife moment where the calling to connect was staring you in the

Naming the Awakening

Jody Brooks 1:43

face.

Kirana Sidin 1:43

I think that intro also connected to the my first time of messy midlife, right? Because my first sense of messy midlife actually started with something very simple. So one night at dinner, my youngest, my younger son called me jobless. That I think what's I think life kind of messy for me, okay? And then we laugh, we laugh about that comment because kids say things without realizing realizing how deeply they will. And you know, it's brutal, it's honest, but at that night I couldn't sleep, Jody. It's not because I was confused, but because I recognized the truth in it. That's the truth. For years, there had been a quiet feeling inside me that I was capable of more than what I was doing with my days. I just gotten very good at renaming it, calling it probably being busy with my the with the role that I have to play, or being content because I know that I have a happy life. I cannot complain about my life at all. Or I think it's just like being grateful for my life. Anything that meant I didn't have to look at it too closely. So when my son said that one sentence, he wasn't telling me something new. No, it's not. He was simply the first person to say out loud I what I've been quietly carrying for years. That's the truth. And it didn't take me months to work through how I think it's only like happened for weeks because the longing was already there, and I already had all the evidence, but I just do not pay attention, and I just hadn't permitted myself to name it. So that's I think the revelation. He named it for me, and once something has a name, we can unhear it right. And then that's what made my midlife messy. It wasn't telling, it wasn't telling that everything fell apart. No. I think this is what this wasn't a crisis, too. It I think it was an awakening for me. It's a wake-up call for me, it's some kind of catalyst for me. A crisis probably makes us want to escape our life, right? But this some kind of awakening, I think, makes me want to get honest about the life that we I already have. So I had to stop pretending I was satisfied with that person of my life that probably no longer fit. Not because it had felt me, but because I think I had outgrown it. And we cannot shrink ourselves back down to fit a life that we've outgrown, no matter how comfortable it used to be. So that basically my person of messy midlife.

Not a Midlife Crisis

Jody Brooks 4:24

You just basically sum up the whole show in your answer there, because it really is true. There's so many things that you say there about the quietness of it. You know, you will know I talk about it passionately when I meet with guests and on the show that the purpose of the show is to break that silence, and silence is quietness, and there is this huge thing that there is this quietness where people are isolated by this silence surrounding it, and then this mislabelling of it as a crisis. So, again, the show is called It's Not a Crisis because it's not a crisis, and but the only language we have and the only way it's referred to is as a crisis, and I think that is part of the battle because we feel this, and I think for me, I was probably thinking the same thing is uh this could be a midlife crisis, but no, I'm not having a crisis, and then that's where the silence comes from. That'd be a fair sum-up of what you were saying in that before.

Kirana Sidin 5:28

So I think I just realized I just realized that you mentioned it to me, this is not crisis, right? Because that's what I felt at that moment is not crisis, but eventually it will always be there. If if I'm not like pay attention to what's always coming back, the the probably the universe wants already give me sign, probably also God give me the sign that you have to do something about it, right? And then I just stayed over there. I do not do something about it. You just only feel like there is something missing, there is something missing, but I don't know what it is. And then you don't know when to find it. So I think it's not crisis correct. I really agree with you, Jody. That's not crisis, but something that you have to figure it out. You have to like get some kind of realization or probably some kind of reflection to uncover what's inside that some kind of longing feeling or something, something that feels missing, or something that feels off for you. And do not just stay there and not do something about it. When you already have some kind of awareness and you're already noticing it, and then you just don't do anything about it, I think it's such a waste. We were just like wasting our time and also our energy, and then God already gives you a sign, and then and the surrounding already give you that sign, and then why are you just always sitting there? So you again, if this is not crisis, but it forces you to just dig deeper again to build something that's truly yours. And then along the way, I think it is something that makes really distinction about the life that you do before and after. So this is not crisis. I truly agree, but you you have to make a meaning on it and also like always like giving the attention and also noticing it. So and in the end of the day, you can build the new life with the some kind of awakening, and also by the end of the day, your last rubble B will feel more aligned with all of the value that you want to bring in the life.

Happy vs Good Life

Jody Brooks 7:25

Obviously, the final part of the show title is that you know that it is a call in to connect, and I think that's what you speak of there. And when we met before, is that it is like there's a part of you that gets lost, and it's not a crisis, it's that part of you that's got lost that's shouting out for to be reconnected. I think it's beautiful that you talk about the quietness of it, and also that comparison to how everything did look great on the outside, and I think you said before that then there's a guilt attached to not feeling satisfied. What did that feel like? Because you said there you had a great marriage, everything else, so you felt like you couldn't say you weren't happy.

Kirana Sidin 8:09

That's that's true. You know, even though I feel happy at the time, I cannot complain again, again, again, and again. I feel happy, and then I cannot have complaints about my life. I have a wonderful husband, I also like wonderful family. But as for me, as as I learned about it along these years, about this some kind of good life, happiness is different with meaningful life. Happiness is very different with a good life. That's the thing. Happiness is more like temporary feeling, Jody. You know, it ends like all of the temporary feeling, it will fade away if you're not like if already passed past the moment, right? So that's happiness, not the same with that meaningful life. So probably like this. We can like smile in every photo, but still and then it's telling us that we are happy, but we feel still can feel something missing. That's the truth. And probably we can we do not smile in every photo, but uh inside we're like feeling so content, so fulfilled. So that's basically for me, uh, you know that I are still happy. Probably I already built this meaningful relationship with my family, with my with my kids, with my husband, also my parents, or or the person in the society. But I do not build something truly mine.

Four Foundations Framework

Kirana Sidin 9:30

Probably, and and if I like want to go back again to my framework, my good life framework, that's like four foundations of this good life that will always come back. First is self-respect. Self-respect means like we we can know how we treat ourselves, we know our worth, we know how to set our boundaries, and also we keep honoring them even nobody's watching. That's self-respect for me. And there's the second one is purpose, simply knowing when you wake up in the morning, you know what you want to do and that give the direction that life feels so meaningful for you. That's purpose for me. And also the third one is meaningful relationship because we cannot like build this life by ourselves. We have to like pay attention to the person that we love. And the last one is continuous growth. We always have to keep growing. I'm not saying that we always have to be productive all the time, but grow for me is more like being honest to ourselves, more aligned with our value, and more like probably a little wiser or a little kinder, and also a little intentional to what already we have to choose. So this basically telling me that okay, I'm happy, but happy is not the same with a good life because okay, I already built this meaningful relationship, but probably at that time I forgot to build my purpose. That's I think that that will that let me see in my life that that when I like going back again, yeah, I do not have purpose in my life, so that's why I'm feeling something still missing and something off, and also probably I do not grow in. That's I think the reason why I feel that some kind of longing. So basically, happiness and a good life or meaningful or fulfillment life is deep, very deep.

Jody Brooks 11:09

And so that's how you're just saying now and I'm entranced by it because it's so true. I think that really speaks to it. There is you can have a good life because they are two entirely different things. Like I've never seen it. You've just framed it beautifully for me, is that you know, in essence, that's quite often this disconnect in midlife is essentially it's a good life. It looks good on the outside, it looks good to everybody else inside. We can feel unhappy or we can feel lacking something. And yes, I say to clients all the time, happiness is not a destination. But if you say that how I'll be happy when, you like you can't place happiness in the future as a destination, it is only available to us in the now. You can say that my life will be better, this and this, is that you can't say I will be happy when. Happiness actually is only available in the now. It be a destination.

Kirana Sidin 12:09

And so that's why I'm telling you, it's more like temporary feelings, it will fade away. So, as any temporary things that happen in this book, it will eventually fade away. Because if not, once again, you you mentioned it very beautifully. Yeah, it's not destination. No, happiness as for me is not this uh destination because if happiness being destination, I think when we have lappy, and then we uh we stop and then and then we still feel something missing again, again, and again, and again, we're just like circling in that whole rocket. So I think along the way, along the way, you will continue doing the lifestyle that happy and then again missing again, happy and then something missing again. So I think you're beautiful, you really beautifully say that happiness is not destination, and I totally agree with you, Judy.

Jody Brooks 12:56

I think, and there are some other bits that you said in there, and I think that's very common, and it leads on from that. I think that we are never, very rarely, if I think back over my childhood and friends and things like this, like I I don't ever really remember being told that success was to be happy, and so success that we chase is built in all of these other things and these constructs that we're given. Like you say to it there as well, like you were a mother, you have a marriage, you have all of these things that we align to being successful, and in following those, we lose ourselves somewhere along the way. I'm interested to know which bit of you, when you had that moment, what was it you realized that you'd left behind without knowing you were doing it in becoming a mother, a happy marriage, like all of those things.

Leaving Comfort Behind

Kirana Sidin 13:53

So I think something that I have to lift behind before or after that comment from my younger son. I think I have to live behind that the life that not serving me anymore. You know, that the life that no longer fits to me. Because even though probably uh I feel that pretty happy and I do not I do not I cannot complain about my life, and probably my life looks good from the outside, right? But inside there's something missing that's I already told you before. But and then I think that life that my life at the time feels very comfortable for me. It's really comfortable. I do not have to do anything about my life. I think my life feels very safe to me, and then also life being good to me. But that is something that I have to leave behind, that comfortable feeling. Because to make me reach some kind of purpose, I have to live that comfortable life, you know. That is something that I have to, I have to like wake up in the morning again and again to reading a book and then writing a book two times a week and then just doing it over and over again. And then also after that, I have to do that coaching practice. I at that time, I do not have to do it actually, Jody. Financially, we're stable, so I don't have to do something to work to gain money. But you know, that is that is something that I have to leave behind, that comfortable life, because I have to really to chase that some kind of my purpose. Because if not, I'm not like chasing it. I feel still feel something missing. So that's basically I have to like studying again when in the morning, in the night, I have to write the the essay, I have to write my book. I think that's like really I have to spend time right to do it because and then something does some kind of consistency and discipline also like make us some effort, right, to do to do it. But I think I have to put a set that comfortable life, and then I have to really build again this life, and then I think that it's okay. It's okay for me, and I I really like uh doing it. I really I enjoy it, even though there's some kind of moment that I feel tired, I don't want to read, I just want to go to the movie, I just want to have some coffee with my friend, you know, something like that. That's the thing that I usually do before all of this, right? But eventually that I think that's something that I have to leave behind to get my luck into the same kind of direction, but I cannot complain about it. That's my that's the life that I choose, okay? So I think that is something that I left to behind, and then that's why I feel comfortable. But I always come back again and again, and that's so that's leading me to the journey that I do right now.

Jody Brooks 16:41

I feel that I should also put in here as well, like you talk your way there. You have a degree in law, you are a highly academic uh individual. So I felt that's worthy of note in here as you're talking about it and putting it as a side note. But I think again, it's really interesting the bits that you say there about you almost giving up some comfort. And you said about it earlier on in the episode, you were talking about how you just get on with doing things and they become the blocks, you become busy, etc. And in that busyness, there is a comfort because like you're ticking the box, great raised great children, had great mother, raised the children, got them to school, they're educated, they're behaving, happy husband, nice house, all of those things. But this those busyness things in themselves you allude to there almost become a block and a distraction. And so then, is what you're talking about there giving up the comfort, is stepping out of that routine and going, actually, not all of this routine belongs. I've I've slipped into this and now I'm repeating it because then my day is full, but essentially it's not full of what serves me.

Kirana Sidin 17:57

You know, my life is full, there's not really served me because eventually that that habit that I do before all of this, eventually it's not serving me.

Small Habits Big Change

Kirana Sidin 18:08

And also like this reading one hour a day every morning, I think it's really set the tone of my whole day, right? It's like it's like that, you know, that is giving me the agency back to myself, right? It's like some kind of the onus back to myself, and then by the end of the day, I feel like that I can control this day, and then I can do what's neck again and again because I already have that some kind of control. So what's neck is really easier for me to do something. So that's basically reading one hour a day, and even totally like that reading really shaped the way how I think. I think and then also like really I began to question my assumption toward something that I witnessed or something that I experienced that some kind of reading. And then because of that one tune, I think that I can more like a more clear thinking, more clear thinking, and then I I want to help people to also uh gain that some kind of clarity because in that clarity, I think that's more like frame feeling. It's like some kind of freedom if we already get that some kind of clarity, and then I just want people to explain it. See, this is very good, and then I and then I want to I want to help people. So that's that is, I think, lead me to the coaching practice, and also because I already reading that book one hour a day, I can begin my writing it in my blog by doing, you know, because something that I witness and also I experience make me like saying a lot and then like and then I synthesize it with the reading that I already read and I try to put it in the in the in the writing in the blocks, and then eventually that writing in a blog become hundreds ad. It's not I I do not like realize it, and it's become a book that bookers for a good life's sake. Basically, that business probably feels at first. I I like really like some kind of the overwhelm feeling too, but knowing that is something really matters to me to do, and it is something that something that is really important for me to do. And if I'm not doing it, I think again, I will feel something missing. So I just coming back, even though it's hard, even though that's makes me to put aside that some kind of comfortable life, but this is really important, really mattered for me. So I always like doing it all again and again, and then I think that's what me for me feel alive, and then like I can like doing my life really consciously and also wisely.

Jody Brooks 20:44

Is that growth does not exist within our comfort zone, and so we actually have to step out of comfort in order to grow because it that the uncertainty, the newness, the challenge is where the growth is, and that's never going to feel comfortable. It's almost if you go to a gym class and you don't come out of it sweating and hurting a little bit, then did you really work? Was there any point going to the class or to the gym in the first place? Yeah, go.

Kirana Sidin 21:14

Okay, okay. So this is about growth. I think what you said, all right, and also, but we have to always like this step up from the comfort zone and to that that kind of growth. I think is also quite right. But I s I also think that the growth is not something that we have to reinvent our life, whole hour life. No, it's not growth, it's not something like that. We can only start small, actually, uh, from growth. And for me, as for me, yeah, I just doing by reading book one hour a day. I think that is a very small, small thing to do, rather than I have to reinvent my whole life. What what do I have to become, right? Because that is, I think, something that really abstract for me. So I just know I just doing something that I feel like real for me, and also it's one thing that I love. So I think that it that is also growth. We have to that, but once again. what you said is true we have to really step out right from from that comfortable zone that's as for me i also experience it i already told you before that we have to step out into becoming to becoming more growing again and again so that is basically the idea of growing we have to really put aside there's some kind of comfortable life and then we're just growing but as for me growth also is not like reinvent our whole life I think growth is also more like being honest to yourself but being honest to you ourselves is also sometimes is it's not comfortable because we have to disappoint we because we have to disappoint people right sometimes so this season four honesty and talks about the whole season talks about that honesty that we have to have with ourselves so you name it there is the I say the the first thing is you've got to trust what you're hearing in.

Jody Brooks 22:56

Yes yes but trust is about self-belief and self-belief can be dangerous because if you don't check that what you believe is right yeah have you believe anything is really important in that. Yeah correct which leads me beautifully into my next question as though I designed it and I really didn't. I get moments in the show where I go that's gold and then I ruin it by shouting it out loud. But anyway that then it's your human you're forgiven I think I'm sat here talking to you and I'm taken back to an episode in one of the previous seasons with Nicole Anderson who you know very much similar to you Nicole is a a leadership coach in the United States and her crisis arrived just after the birth of her second child and so I was sat here thinking how similar we often also feel that this happens just the kids have gone to university or moved out or this has happened and that's when this call in to connect crisis calling to connect occurs. I think there's definitely a movement where it's happening much earlier and it's happening because this calling is being flagged up earlier. For you your son was only seven for Nicole it was actually following the birth of her second child and what spoke to me there was Nicole felt that she was told that she could be a good mum or have a great career. She couldn't do both and her moment sat on a veranda was actually no that's I'm not making a choice I'm going to be a good mum and have the career I want and she talks about how kind of culturally where she grew up that's what she was led to believe like it was one thing or the other and that was very much the family the model the role etc

Culture Faith Expectations

Jody Brooks 24:46

culturally for you in your faith like women it carries a strong stay at home play play the role expectation you are a practicing Muslim how much do you think that cultural element like Nicole that cultural element played in to creating that drift I think of course like there's some culture also like some kind of expectation that that being a Muslim woman Musli unfortunately of course there's our expectation I think every woman grows up with some kind of expectation around what she should be how she should behave what success should like and what kind of life she should build.

Kirana Sidin 25:30

That's I think some kind of expectation from the society also cultural in my country and also being a Muslim too. And being Muslim adds another layer to that one it's not only cultural but being Muslim adds that another layer to that there are expectations around trade around modesty family marriage and how we carry ourselves that's the truth right but I think the interesting part is learning to distinguish between what is truly my value and what is simply someone else's expectation of me that's I think the the that I have to learn so for me being a Muslim woman doesn't mean like rejecting expectation or rebelling against them it means like becoming conscious enough to understand them and then deciding which one to generally align with my values and faith. That's as simple as that for me because sometimes we follow expectation simply because we never stop to ask whether we actually believe them. And I think that's part also of growing up not necessarily becoming someone completely different but becoming more intentional about the choice that we make and understanding why we make them so and I think being a Muslim woman in Indonesia for especially is in is an interesting experience because Islam is very much part of the culture and everyday life in my country I think we're the biggest majority of Muslim in the in this world Indonesia is the biggest majority of Muslims in this world and then but at the same time every woman has her own relationship with faith that's the truth. So for me being Muslim isn't just about following a set of rules not in a way like that it's also about constantly asking myself why do I believe this? What does this mean in the way I live or the way I treat people and the choices I make and I think that is something I value about growing up in Indonesia right faith culture family and society and are all intersweeted right and so you so I like naturally learn to navigate between what is expected of you and what I genuinely believe and choose for myself. That's for me. And I don't think being a Muslim woman means having everything figured out I'm still learning yes indeed questioning growing and sometimes finding my way back to what matters and perhaps that's the part I find most meaningful faith doesn't have to stop me from becoming myself that's the important thing it can actually give me a deeper understanding of who am I and how I want to live that's I think the special thing and beautiful thing about being a Muslim in the in the in my country Indonesia that's

Faith and Shared Humanity

Kirana Sidin 28:33

I think that was so beautiful and thank you for being so honest.

Jody Brooks 28:36

I think it's really important there are some very negative stereotypes out there. Discussed it in the pre-show and I was really keen that we handle that because you are a role model somewhere right now there is a Muslim woman that has a good life but isn't happy and feels that she can't do those things and so I think it was really important for you to voice that and say that it doesn't mean you're neglecting anything it's anything in fact I think what was beautiful there my faith is really important to me I am a practicing Christian and exactly that like being a Christian helps me know myself better. Yeah it helps me know who I am in the world. That's what my faith brings to me and that's why I respect all faiths because I believe truly in their purity what they help us do is they help us connect with ourselves and through that they hopefully one day in my world that I live in they help us all connect and it's a beautiful way to bring us towards the end of the first half of the show because there Nicole's not here today but hopefully we can see that there's that connection cross cultural we are all human beings we are one species and there you are in Indonesia experiencing the same thing as Nicole is in America and here I am in the United Kingdom hosting a show that that shares all of that. And the show is listened to in 52 countries and 400 cities across the world so Karana I thank you deeply from the bottom of my heart for being that role model and speaking so beautifully of your faith and of Islam and your culture it means a huge amount and I know there are people out there listening today that that will really have touched. Thank you.

Kirana Sidin 30:23

Yes well thank you so much for bringing this into the table I think I have to really I I I I'm really glad that you bring that question to this table because I want people to hear it too because being a Muslim it's beautiful and it's very human for us we just like only being human to understand each other right we cannot like it's not it's not something that's really complicated. It's not it's really simple that we only being we only have to be human to understand each other and also like really respecting each other. That I think the the beautiful thing about being human and I I don't want people like really con disconnected with that idea that simple idea but I think it's really helped us to build the the society that we're always understanding each other in this world during this world more more like so many you know what happened today you don't really know what happened today. I think there is some kind of sadness there but why just because just being a human and just stop there and just understand each other so I think um I really I really appreciate that you bring it to to this table and I can speak it freely to you.

Jody Brooks 31:32

The really sad thing is that there is so much in the world where faith is used to point out the differences between people whereas really we should all use our faith to show the similarities to point out how we're all similar how you choose to maintain that faith in humanity because to me that's what faith is about it's about humanity and whichever model you use as your faith for humanity use it to point out the similarities and stand closer a species as individual humans rather than point out differences and stand apart and that I think at the core of every faith is that we should love our fellow our fellow man or woman and so I think sometimes we need to take faith back to that very core element and forget where it's got lost along the way and creates division and creates war. It was never intended to do that.

Kirana Sidin 32:32

I agree I totally agree with you. I cannot say anything about it anymore.

Jody Brooks 32:36

I feel that's a beautiful part to bring this first half to a close you have talked beautifully about your quietness of your messy midlife moment realizing that a good life and happiness were two different things and that you didn't need to plode your life to change everything. You could be grateful and ungrateful at the same time is there anything that we haven't discussed that you feel that you want to draw to the listeners' attention about the messy midlife moment before we take a break no I think we already got a really strong point to move to the second part of this show so you just can still move on do you know what as I said it I was like I really don't think there is we've done a really good first half of the show that's cool. Whilst you listen to this lovely advert we're gonna take a break and catch our breaths and we'll see you in a few moments before we get back to the conversation I want to tell you about the wider messy midlife space every episode has its own home at messy midlife podcast dot world where you'll find the full show notes, practical takeaways, guest bios and links to anything we've talked about today you'll also find a link to the Messy Midlife community a supportive space where you can connect with me connect with others together and access free tools to help you explore the nine principles of authentic living in your own life and if you're still ready for more personal support visit authenticcoaching.me to find out about one-to-one coaching and book a free 45 minute call with me this show is brought to you completely free the only thing I ask is that if it's helping you please subscribe in your chosen podcast app so you never miss an episode. Leave a review like this episode and most importantly of all share it with a friend or loved one who might need to hear it because midlife might be messy but it does not have to be a crisis it can be a calling to connect now let's get back to today's show

Second Half Recap

Jody Brooks 34:45

welcome back listeners to the second half of this beautiful episode with my guest today Karana who's joining us from Jakarta in Indonesia we heard beautifully in the first half about how it isn't really a crisis and how it arrives quite often quietly and for Karana it arrived with that statement they say out of the mouths of babes come many truths and her seven year old referred to her as jobless at dinner one evening and from that there was a quiet shift an acknowledgement and a realisation that something was missing. She talked beautifully about how a good life and happiness were two different things and in that moment she realized she had a good life but maybe that happiness element was was missing from her. And then she spoke beautifully about cultural shifts and faith but in amongst all of that one of the things that she began to talk about was that it didn't have to be a massive change and as quiet as this realization arrived the shift and the change to something new was also very small very quiet and nurtured over

One Hour Reading Habit

Jody Brooks 36:03

time.

Kirana Sidin 36:03

Take us on that journey from the realization to the first step and how that grew into where you are now so it's basically coming for from reading a book one hour a day that's basically the simple daily habit that I do again and again every day and it led me to the it saved the way how I think and also eventually it made me want to write it in a blog and probably it's the same like probably people will say it's like journaling probably I think it's worked the same way right about the writing in a blog and also the journaling I think is the same we're just like we're just like writing that what the one thing that we experience and also one thing that we witness in the writing and a blog is the same but the medium is different. It's okay no problem there's like some some kind of medium that we will feel different but the point is the direction is still the same. That's writing for me and also and then that reading yeah you know this tell me a lot it's like shape the way how I think and also I begin questioning my assumption toward anything.

Small Choices Compound

Kirana Sidin 37:07

So that's reading a book one hour day something yeah is it is still like small but you know once again we often underestimate that small choices that small moment people will always like overestimate that changes always begin with the grand plan or grand action that I think the most misunderstood about transformation or like changing our life. So as for me that small tiny daily choices or tiny daily habit will always help us to becoming us in the future. That's I think the power of small choices day every day we cannot like noticing because it feels small at a time but eventually it will compound again and again it will compound into our habit that's the thing and after it becomes our habit it will become our character right character what I mean what I mean about character is you right how you how how that you become and then after it becomes your character I think it will become your destiny what I think what I mean about destiny is the life that you want to build and then the life that's becoming you in the future that's your destiny because you already make that small daily choices or one small daily habit or one daily choice decision every day one choice at a time and that you always coming back again and again to that choice and eventually it makes it makes a new pattern for you and then you leave behind that old pattern and you give you have this some kind of new pattern and then by the end of the day it's becoming new in the future becoming new you in the future right so that's basically a small daily choice is for me the the power of small daily choices people will always like telling it's always have to start with the grand plan or a big transformation as for me no it's not the way it works. Eventually probably yes sometimes it becomes from that grand plan. But as for me mostly I think people will will like noticing it that if you always like choosing that small daily choice every day and it in it become your new pattern I think in the end of the day it will be coming in the future.

Jody Brooks 39:19

So much there's so much in there I'm just sat here now trying to work out how to chunk it up and to ask my next question. Listeners to the show will know that I'm a huge fan of James Clear and atomic habits which speaks to exactly what you're saying there is the compound interest and it's something that I say when I work with clients is we focus so much when we set a goal we focus again it's a bit like the happiness thing we focus on the future bit so much and then the goal feels massive whereas actually that goal is if you set yourself something to do in a year's time that goal is made up of 365 tiny shifts yeah it's not made up of one huge leap it's 365 days of a consistent behaviour. Yes correct and so if you take the goal from a year away and make it 365 things suddenly it's really tiny. Like suddenly it's not this huge massive thing that's like a year away. Yeah exactly 300 tiny conscious decisions that you speak volumes

First Book Spark

Jody Brooks 40:28

to there. I want to know though what was the first book that you read? My first book that I read in that when you made this decision when you made the decision what was the first book that you picked up that started the journey.

Kirana Sidin 40:42

Okay I think I remember I start with this book it's from Rolf Dobley The Art of Thinking Clearly that's the first book that I read that's when I start this journey and it's like really questioning my assumption toward anything because that's the art of thinking clearly because we often like you know we're thinking like this but actually it's only like illusion you know it's some type of logical fallacy over there. There's many things that now I'm wrong. Okay now oh this is right and the way I do it over all all of these years all of this time is really wrong. So that book basically makes me questioning my assumption and then it really helps me to like gaining my clearer thinking that clarity again and again so that's I think my first book probably The Art of Thinking Literally amazing.

Jody Brooks 41:35

I think I was thinking when you were talking before as well and you've stated it a few times there in the first half we discussed how you're busy and you're doing all of these things and it almost becomes a bit of an echo chamber in that you don't have your thought processes challenged and I think you alluded to it as well when we were talking about faith and culture is quite often we're handed beliefs that are other people's beliefs and we don't question them. And so I love the fact that you picked up a book that said the art of thinking clearly and suddenly you were no longer in an echo chamber. You've just said there is that I started to question what I believed and question those things and actually say why am I thinking this why am I thinking yes yes yes that's what I feel when I read that book oh my god I'm really wrong and I think I look stupid. We all do it and I think it's that thing like the first of the nine principles back to season one is awareness because so much of life puts us on autopilot. Yeah you know and life becomes a list of things we have to do every day and our brain is very good at taking care of things on autopilot which re require us to essentially not think. Yeah and

Journaling Beyond Paper

Jody Brooks 42:49

so I think you talk of it there it's very true I am a huge person for journaling but I also say to people like it it doesn't have to be a journal in the format of a formal journal is it's an opportunity for personal thought. So even if you record it or you walk in the woods and say it out loud or you write a poem or you do something that is processing those internal thoughts to me they're all journaling. They're all journaling if you want to sit I don't know who would want to sit and record themselves. I record a podcast and I hate it but like I know it's very different but I'm like if you video blog you know if you're not comfortable writing because putting pen to paper I think for people feels frightening. So I say to people so speak it to your phone record a video blog do whatever but just think and think freely for 10 minutes a day.

Kirana Sidin 43:50

I think you already got you know I think this is very similar to what what I do and I what I'm telling people to do. It's simply a slow down for all While and pause for a while. You we don't have to do that, some kind of journey, as you said, is true. And also, probably we are not like always have to write in a blog or anything. But as for me, it's simply pause for a while, slow down for a while. Just like give your space, create that space for yourself to think more clearly what's what's like truly matters to you and what what you do you want to answer with the all of the things that always roll as you because and then after we're doing it, I think we're just like respond something like more like by default, right? It's not like we're responding as type of automatically, and then we're just like being autopilot. And then I think an autopilot is is okay, but at at some point, at the different point, it can really be dangerous because you you all you are you're like losing yourself along the way, and then you are like being not being honest to yourself too, and then probably you did do not have that some kind of awareness and noticing what truly matters for you. That's I think the most dangerous thing about living on autopilot, rather than living on more intentionally and also like posting for a while, slow down for a while. We don't have to do that, some kind of journaling once again, but only simply posting for a while, slow down for a while. I think it's enough for us to choose more wisely and like what's next for me and what do I really want, what's really matter for me, what's important for me, and what is like aligned with all of my value. So I truly agree with you. It's not always to be that way. We can still have like we don't need to that some kind of medium to, we just only simply pulse and slow down for a while.

Jody Brooks 45:40

Again, I'm like my brain

From Reading to Blogging

Jody Brooks 45:43

is racing, sat here trying to with those different elements. The the book started the thought process. How hard was it then, or what was the motivation that took that to a blog? So you've done the hour a day reading, and now all of a sudden the the blog starts.

Kirana Sidin 46:01

Okay, so when I started wanting writing in a blog, you know, that is I think only one simple thing I bring at a time. I only want to feel good about myself. That's the main reason.

Jody Brooks 46:15

Because yeah, of your honesty, the blog was nothing, the blog was simply about me feeling good.

Kirana Sidin 46:22

Yes, as simple as that, because knowing that I can do more than only being a regular housewife and also wife, I think it's really make me empower to myself that I feel good. So, yes, that's simply that's it. I do not like think about that this blog has to become viral, also this blog has to change people. No, I do not think something about it at all. I only I only feel that I want to feel good about myself, that I can do something better than the way that I do before, and also that I can like capable of doing more rather than only being a housewife and also mom for my kids. So that's I think the simple motivation, the reason that I start writing in a blog, just for me be because I want to feel good about myself.

Jody Brooks 47:15

I love that, and I think it's a really to any of the listeners out there, it's a really beautiful demonstration of this doesn't have to be massive. And I totally get it. It wasn't about it being like a viral blog or anything like that. Because there's a huge amount of in the world these days about validation and people seeking validation, but there's something that's more powerful than that, and that is an element of internal validation of simply I can do it. And I think that's what you speak to there. Is yes, I know very similarly for me in creating a podcast. Remember thinking when I recorded the first one, I actually don't care if nobody listens. There's a bit of me that did the achievement was in uh recording it, the achievement was in the doing it, and the fact that actually I can do this.

Kirana Sidin 48:07

Exactly.

Jody Brooks 48:08

That was the point, and I think that then that shift. Now, thankfully, um, in another words, because like now as the podcast grows, it changes, then so my purpose grows and it changes. And I think that you speak to that in there because obviously you then went to the next level after the blog and it became a book.

Kirana Sidin 48:31

As I've told you before, I do not dream about it. I do not have that grand plan that I have to become an author and also life question. No, it's not you're still far away from me at that time. I just want a reading of book and then also writing it in the blog, but until it becomes a book. So yeah, that's I think the starting point that I want to feel good if you let me to the the book that I that I have right now, tears for the life. So that's I think the same thing happening to you too about this podcast, right? You don't you don't not think about that people you don't care or whether we people like listening to it or not. It's the same for me. I do not care that people will read it or not. I just want to feel good and then I I can do it and also like something like that. So that's I think the

Book and Legacy

Kirana Sidin 49:17

beauty in it.

Jody Brooks 49:18

I do I think that you speak to something there as well. I often think about there are many people who wrote things that in their lifetime were never as big as they became after their death, or those things, and so there is an element of legacy, a bit mystical, but I sometimes think there's an element of making your mark, and I was here. And so I at some point, who knows? But in the future you never know, you've left your mark, you've left your legacy. And yes, I think spoken and written word are very permanent things in a world that is ever changing. We have spoken about faith, and there are books there that are 2,000 years on, so I think there is this permanence in a world that's constantly shifting. I think the beauty of spoken and written word is that there is a permanence in a world that is constantly changing. Tell us about the book. It's your opportunity now. Blatant plug, because it's a beautiful book.

Kirana Sidin 50:13

Okay, okay. The book itself is more like it, as I've told you before, it's like by coming from the personal SI that I write in my blog, right? It's become handy. So I just put I just give the home for each of the SI, and then like like collecting in the same theme, speak the same theme, and also like that is so so I think the book itself more like you can find so many stories there. My story, yes, something that I experienced or something that I witnessed, you can find so many stories about me over there. But I try to connect it with with the reading that I already read. It's more like about philosophy and also psychology and also timeless wisdom, and also like, and then be connected with the everyday situation and everyday event. So that's basically that book will always tell you that's like drawing from stoicism and also essentialism. I really love essentialism, by the way. I think it's the way how I practice this busy world and noisy world that's is an essentialism for me. So that's a book basically, and then it's more like how to build your good life. That because, as for me, a good life is not something that happening to you instantly, it is something that you have to build one choice at a time. So that book is for. And then also I want to emphasize, and I'm really proud of this one, that book will feel not pretty. I think it's about more like cosy conversation with the friend that been there than that. It's it's me, yeah, by the way. So it's basically something that will you will feel that it is more like cozy conversation. I always tell that I always tell it that more like part philosophy, part essentialism, part cozy conversation, where Marcus Aurelius meets Gilmore Girl, and the LC, the LC somehow makes a cameo.

Jody Brooks 52:04

That's my book, is I think it's beautiful. The book is called Cheers for a Good Life.

Kirana Sidin 52:11

Yes.

Jody Brooks 52:12

Um, and is available on Amazon, I believe.

Kirana Sidin 52:14

Sure.

Jody Brooks 52:15

I will. So, listeners, you've just heard Kirana talk beautifully about this book, which is a collection of essays of reflections of the journey that we have spoken about today. And so if you found yourself in any elements of today's discussion, you can continue that and find yourself somewhere else in Kirana's story as it unfolds through those essays and her journey. So if you go to the show page on the Messy Midlife Podcast website, so messy midlife podcast.world and find Kirana's episode, I will make sure there is a link there to Amazon to purchase yourself. Cheers for a good life. It's a beautiful read, and as Karana beautifully describes it there, I love that is Marcus Aurelius meets the Gilmore girls. Yeah, it's a coffee shop discussion.

Kirana Sidin 53:06

And somehow makes a cameo.

Jody Brooks 53:09

TLC makes a cameo. I mean, like that book has everything in it, and again, talking about those small steps and a huge amount of what you about creating a good life.

Coaching Path Emerges

Jody Brooks 53:21

And obviously, as well as the book out of this, you have become a coach like myself. Tell me about how that arrived in amongst all of this. Like, where did it appear? Was it pre-book, post-book, or was it all in the mix at the same time?

Kirana Sidin 53:39

I think it before the book itself. It's after I began reading and also writing, and I was like, okay, I think I already got this some kind of clear thinking. I do not have accept have that some kind of logical fallacy again or illusion again. So and then I think I can more like get this some kind of clarity for myself, and I think that is really freedom for me to have that some kind of clarity. So that's basically that coaching practice is before this book. I do it before this book. And I think already did it a lot. And then I think I really thought that I can help people. Yes, just as I probably there's something if it feels good too about yourself that you can help people. It's not about the the amount behind it. No, it's not about it. But knowing that we can help people, I think it's more like tremendous feeling for us, you know. Yeah, you I think you know it exactly. So that's basically the coaching practice is before this book.

Jody Brooks 54:35

I remember sitting with a coach, and I think the biggest thing I came away from the session with as someone seeing a coach was I remember sitting there and thinking, oh my god, what an amazing job. I came out feeling so good that I was like, Oh my god. And my entire career, my previous career, was about making people feel good and that shared connection and that mutuality of being in service to other people. And it was very much the thing that inspired me. I love also that you say there that the book isn't going back to the book, that it isn't preachy and it isn't a self-help, and it doesn't, you don't open up the book and tomorrow morning have to start eating like a whole meal breakfast and five litres of green juice and do yoga.

Kirana Sidin 55:24

Is that true? Yes, I do not say anything about it. No, no, no, no, no.

Jody Brooks 55:28

And I I'm not saying that some of those things might not be the right.

Kirana Sidin 55:32

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Jody Brooks 55:33

But I love that you talk about that, and certainly it's certainly something I say as a coach as well, is that it's not about huge changes. It's not about I always say it's not about answers, it's about questions and making sure you're answering that you're asking the right questions. As a coach,

Asking Better Questions

Jody Brooks 55:52

what really what really underpins how you work as a coach? Like when a client comes to see you, for the listeners today listening, when a client comes to see you as a coach, what underpins your practice? What is that journey for the client like?

Kirana Sidin 56:07

So actually, you already like mentioned it before. I I try to like asking the better question. I try to dig deeper, I try to dig deeper what beneath all the problem that they said to me. And then instead of I just like talking about how the solution is, no, I think coaching is not work that way, right? We only have to ask the right question again and again until that layer eventually opened up to us. That's basically one thing that I always do to my client that I try to dig deeper again, again, what until what really matters to the to her that, and then in the end of the day, they will get the better decision to whatever the problem is. Sometimes, you know, probably we get stuck, but I try to always dig deeper and deeper again deeper. And then I by the end of the day, we together, like you know, walking the journey together, it's not me as a coach, but like just because I'm asking you a question, that the answer is on you. That's that's one thing that you the one that even know what is it all about. The answer is on you. I'm not I'm not in the in the portion of like giving an advice, I'm not someone that gives you a solution because that is something you have to figure out by yourself. But but me as a coach will always asking you the right question again and again until we reach some kind of milestone and also some kind of conclusion that okay, that is the one, the problem that you have to solve, and then and then by the end of the day, you can have that some kind of clarity, and in the end, you can get better decisions based on that the journey that we do together. So that's I think the experience will be like that.

Jody Brooks 57:55

I mean, you uh you speak volumes as well, it's very much I always say that I don't have any answers for you.

Kirana Sidin 58:01

Yeah ever.

Jody Brooks 58:03

And what you don't realize is you have all the answers you're looking for, you already have.

Kirana Sidin 58:07

Exactly.

Jody Brooks 58:08

And if you're not getting the right answer, it's usually because you're asking the wrong question. Yes. And so, and you speak hugely there about clarity. There is something that's really, I think, quite mind-blowing about the moments of clarity. I was actually doing a coaching session a couple of days ago. It was a it was actually a clarity call, it was a a prospective client, and we got three quarters of the way through the session, and I asked a question, and it was one of those questions as a coach that like you see it on the client's face, and they're like, Oh, sudden realisation. And the client came back with the answer. I understand why it's called a clarity call now. It's like it's like a second like, whoa, like in that that one question can you know that one question can suddenly clear the fog, stop the hay, stop the overwhelm.

Kirana Sidin 59:03

Yes.

Jody Brooks 59:04

Um, and quite often I think it's the thing that we can't ask ourselves, and I think that it speaks volumes to your seven-year-old son, who, when we started out this episode, made a statement that was like a question that cut through the clarity for you in Yes. I mean, all he needed to say is Mum, why are you jobless? And it would have been a question rather than a statement, but in that moment, was that question that brought you clarity, or was the statement that brought you clarity and has informed the whole of our conversation today?

Kirana Sidin 59:39

Yes. I think we're already making uh good progress in this conversation. I really do enjoy this conversation. Probably we're already making a strong, strong point here with with my with all the conversation. But I just want to remind the listener uh once again a good last isn't something that will automatically happen to you. That is I think yeah. It's not something that will fall for you and that is suddenly happening to you. You have to build it again and again with that kind of intentional choices, with that's consciously the decision that feels conscious for you and also wise for you. And then by knowing what truly matters for you, what's really important for you, what aligns with all of your value, and also what do you really want. So that's basically a good life for me. It's not something that we find are instantly happening, but it's something that we have to build one intentional choice at a time.

Jody Brooks 1:00:50

I mean, it it's I get goosebumps, like it was so good. No, that the today's conversation has been so inspiring. I've been inspired and you've raised my energy through our conversation today. I'm sure there are many listeners out there who would like to carry on that conversation with you and connect. What's the best way for them to get in touch with you and carry on the conversation if they've got a question or they just want to share where they're at in their journey with you? How's best for them to do that?

Kirana Sidin 1:01:20

Okay, you just simply access my website, Tears for the Good Life.com, is the same title with my book, it's Tears for the Good Life.com. And then you can find my book there, link to my book, and also my my coaching practice. You probably you can learn about it if you want to have yes some conversation to get your clarity, probably to get better decision for you. And also you can find my writing, my honest tech, my role thought, probably before it becomes a book. So and then also my next event and my speaking engagement. Basically, that's my home for my body of work. You can continue our conversation there.com. Thank you so much, Jody.

Jody Brooks 1:02:03

Oh, thank you. I will make sure that's in the show notes below. But as always, if listeners, if you go over to the Messy Midlife uh website, so messy midlife podcast.world and look up Karana's episode, all of her links will be there as well, and you can continue reading her profile and her bio alongside listening and watching to the episode.

Seed and Farewell

Jody Brooks 1:02:25

Karana, before I sum up, your final question, as always, which is the same to every guest. If you could plant a seed in the mind of the listener today that would grow slowly over time and bear fruit, what would that seed be?

Kirana Sidin 1:02:43

Okay. I think the seed I want to learn is the courage to question the life we're living and ask ourselves, is this really mine? I want people, especially women like me, to know that it's never too late to really define what a good life or meaningful life looks like for you. And I think the second seat is self-trust, to trust that quiet feeling inside us, even when we cannot fully explain it yet, because sometimes that feeling it's a sign that there's something in you that wants to grow. And also, I don't necessarily want to tell people what their life should be like. No, it's not something that I do. I want to like plan a seed that makes them post, look inward, and become curious about what's possible for them. And hopefully, that seed grows into a life that feels more honest, more intentional, and more truly your own. That's I think the plan that I want.

Jody Brooks 1:03:55

Beautiful seed, beautiful seed. Kirana, before I sum up, can I thank you for giving this time today for sharing so beautifully with myself and the listeners? It has truly been an honor to record this episode, and somehow I now have to sum it up. But thank you so much.

Kirana Sidin 1:04:15

Me as well, thank you so much for having me. Again, it's such an honor to be here with you, Jodie. I really enjoyed this insightful conversation, thoughtful conversation. You know, I really enjoy this kind of conversation. So I'm really grateful that you give me the space to do this. Okay, thank you so much, Jodie.

Jody Brooks 1:04:35

No, I'm thank you that I thank you for coming and being honest and filling that space. Being a shining light of a role model out there in the world, there is so much of today's episode that is just when I think of it from start to finish this beautiful journey. There's a warmness warmth in this episode as well, and a gentleness that shine out from Kirana. It started with that question or statement from her son that made her question quietly what was really going on, and I think that is the truth about midlife and the calling that we receive is that it often isn't loud, it rarely is a crisis, but it is a soft, quiet calling that arrives and makes us think that maybe there is something more that we've been denying ourselves, that there is a part of us that we haven't answered, there is a bit of us that maybe isn't fulfilled. Karana speaks so beautifully of how a good life isn't essentially happiness and the two are two entirely different things, and that's maybe where we get lost is that we create a good life, but we don't intentionally create a good life that includes happiness. We think that they are one and the same thing and they are separate. And the really beautifully in the second half of this discussion, that change is as quiet as the calling was when it arrived. It didn't need to be a huge, massive shift, it didn't need to be a change of job, it didn't need to be an end of a relationship, it didn't need to be any of those things. It was as simple as picking up a book for one hour a day, and accepting that growth may mean that some of the bits that were comfortable needed to be uncomfortable in order to grow. And in that journey, although there was never a destination, there was just a decision to find a purpose, follow a purpose, and in that became blog that became a coach that became a book. And what speaks volumes for me in the whole of this episode, we are just one huge big human species, and that all cultures shift, and at the core from it being Nicole in America to Kirana in Jakarta to me in the United Kingdom, we all experience that quiet question, is there more? And the answer is to always connect. Listeners, this episode, as always, has been beautiful. Thank you so much for the time that you've given today listening to this episode. And always remember, you're not broken, you're simply becoming. Until next time, take care, and I'll see you on the next episode. You can find the show like below on or adult.